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	<title>Comments on: Your Comments are Valuable</title>
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	<link>http://www.yesh.com/blog/2007/11/13/your-comments-are-valuable/</link>
	<description>Artist, Technologist, Entrepreneur</description>
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		<title>By: jacksonfox</title>
		<link>http://www.yesh.com/blog/2007/11/13/your-comments-are-valuable/comment-page-1/#comment-14567</link>
		<dc:creator>jacksonfox</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Nov 2007 19:09:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yesh.com/b2/2007/11/13/your-comments-are-valuable/#comment-14567</guid>
		<description>I think -- and now I get to say IANAL for the first time ever -- that the restrictions in the CC license only apply when fair use does not. My understanding of fair use is that:

1. The usage can&#039;t be the whole damn thing
2. It has to be for a supported purpose: parody, news, etc.
3. It has to be part of creating a new work

Since they excerpted the comments, used them for reportage, and used the comments to create a &quot;new work,&quot; they&#039;re covered by fair use. 

And this is where my musing about comments as &quot;works&quot; comes in. If a comment is an independent work, what might be considered a fair portion to quote before you are effectively reproducing the work in total?

I&#039;m sympathetic to the idea that comments are independent works, but in a sense they&#039;re meaningless outside the original context of the blog post. Most comments don&#039;t stand on their own out side of that context... Except when they do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think &#8212; and now I get to say IANAL for the first time ever &#8212; that the restrictions in the CC license only apply when fair use does not. My understanding of fair use is that:</p>
<p>1. The usage can&#8217;t be the whole damn thing<br />
2. It has to be for a supported purpose: parody, news, etc.<br />
3. It has to be part of creating a new work</p>
<p>Since they excerpted the comments, used them for reportage, and used the comments to create a &#8220;new work,&#8221; they&#8217;re covered by fair use. </p>
<p>And this is where my musing about comments as &#8220;works&#8221; comes in. If a comment is an independent work, what might be considered a fair portion to quote before you are effectively reproducing the work in total?</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sympathetic to the idea that comments are independent works, but in a sense they&#8217;re meaningless outside the original context of the blog post. Most comments don&#8217;t stand on their own out side of that context&#8230; Except when they do.</p>
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		<title>By: BrianR</title>
		<link>http://www.yesh.com/blog/2007/11/13/your-comments-are-valuable/comment-page-1/#comment-14564</link>
		<dc:creator>BrianR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Nov 2007 14:36:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yesh.com/b2/2007/11/13/your-comments-are-valuable/#comment-14564</guid>
		<description>If OrangePolitics&#039;s blog comments fall under fair use then what power does the NonCommerical condition have in Creative Commons License?

How is it just that a news organization can &quot;borrow&quot; text under fair use then lock it up under more restrictive terms? For example: Under stories at the News and Observer you find this.. &lt;em&gt;&quot;All rights reserved. This copyrighted material may not be published, broadcast or redistributed in any manner.&quot;&lt;/em&gt; Here is the N&amp;Os &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.triangle.com/151/index.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Terms of Use&lt;/a&gt;.

My gut says blog comments are separate or sub works. At least in context of ownership. But its possible that the ownership (leasing) of the web server and database trumps the ownership of the text content in some way.

Complicated stuff. Easy to appreciate several points of views that appear to contradict each other.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If OrangePolitics&#8217;s blog comments fall under fair use then what power does the NonCommerical condition have in Creative Commons License?</p>
<p>How is it just that a news organization can &#8220;borrow&#8221; text under fair use then lock it up under more restrictive terms? For example: Under stories at the News and Observer you find this.. <em>&#8220;All rights reserved. This copyrighted material may not be published, broadcast or redistributed in any manner.&#8221;</em> Here is the N&#038;Os <a href="http://www.triangle.com/151/index.html" rel="nofollow">Terms of Use</a>.</p>
<p>My gut says blog comments are separate or sub works. At least in context of ownership. But its possible that the ownership (leasing) of the web server and database trumps the ownership of the text content in some way.</p>
<p>Complicated stuff. Easy to appreciate several points of views that appear to contradict each other.</p>
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		<title>By: jacksonfox</title>
		<link>http://www.yesh.com/blog/2007/11/13/your-comments-are-valuable/comment-page-1/#comment-14563</link>
		<dc:creator>jacksonfox</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Nov 2007 14:12:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yesh.com/b2/2007/11/13/your-comments-are-valuable/#comment-14563</guid>
		<description>Brian, I&#039;ve got to say that this looks like it falls under Fair Use. Regardless of the license on the content, the article excerpts portions of the comments for the purpose of news reporting. It would be nice if they linked back to OP, but I think they&#039;re use of the comments is legal.

Here&#039;s an interesting question: Are blog comments part of the &quot;original&quot; work -- the blog post -- or are they separate works?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brian, I&#8217;ve got to say that this looks like it falls under Fair Use. Regardless of the license on the content, the article excerpts portions of the comments for the purpose of news reporting. It would be nice if they linked back to OP, but I think they&#8217;re use of the comments is legal.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s an interesting question: Are blog comments part of the &#8220;original&#8221; work &#8212; the blog post &#8212; or are they separate works?</p>
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		<title>By: BrianR</title>
		<link>http://www.yesh.com/blog/2007/11/13/your-comments-are-valuable/comment-page-1/#comment-14562</link>
		<dc:creator>BrianR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Nov 2007 21:05:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yesh.com/b2/2007/11/13/your-comments-are-valuable/#comment-14562</guid>
		<description>The facts are the Chapel Hill News violated copyright law when it broke the terms of the &lt;a href=&quot;http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/1.0/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Creative Commons license&lt;/a&gt; posted on &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.orangepoltics.org&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Orange Politics&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The facts are the Chapel Hill News violated copyright law when it broke the terms of the <a href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/1.0/" rel="nofollow">Creative Commons license</a> posted on <a href="http://www.orangepoltics.org" rel="nofollow">Orange Politics</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: WillR</title>
		<link>http://www.yesh.com/blog/2007/11/13/your-comments-are-valuable/comment-page-1/#comment-14561</link>
		<dc:creator>WillR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Nov 2007 19:52:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yesh.com/b2/2007/11/13/your-comments-are-valuable/#comment-14561</guid>
		<description>I understand your general thrust but I could also see the CHN&#039;s use as something akin to reporting on graffiti someone scrawled on a public wall.  Mark and Tom&#039;s comments were &quot;scrawled&quot; on a public wall - did the wall get proper attribution. Not really. 

Was the consequence of that injurious to them - no - I don&#039;t think so.  

Did it rob OP of some value - you obviously think so - that appears to be why your upset.

As far as &quot;The people who work hard on non-profit sites like Orange Politics do it for there community, not for profit. &quot;  OP is a calling card for Ruby.  She definitely has used it to advance her career - so I don&#039;t think this statement is supportable by the facts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I understand your general thrust but I could also see the CHN&#8217;s use as something akin to reporting on graffiti someone scrawled on a public wall.  Mark and Tom&#8217;s comments were &#8220;scrawled&#8221; on a public wall &#8211; did the wall get proper attribution. Not really. </p>
<p>Was the consequence of that injurious to them &#8211; no &#8211; I don&#8217;t think so.  </p>
<p>Did it rob OP of some value &#8211; you obviously think so &#8211; that appears to be why your upset.</p>
<p>As far as &#8220;The people who work hard on non-profit sites like Orange Politics do it for there community, not for profit. &#8221;  OP is a calling card for Ruby.  She definitely has used it to advance her career &#8211; so I don&#8217;t think this statement is supportable by the facts.</p>
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